Empowering Perspectives: Unlocking What Women Want in the Workplace
Explore the key insights into what women seek in a company and how to attract, promote, and retain female talent. Join our online panel discussion featuring perspectives from accomplished female leaders who will share firsthand what they truly desire in a workplace. Gain valuable insights directly from the source to better understand and address the needs of female professionals in your organization.
Panelist include: Anna Campagna, Diana Berte, and Minerva Acevedo
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Lauren Stiebing (00:06):
I would like to welcome everyone and thank you so much for joining us today on this celebration of Women’s Day 2024 on the topic of empowering perspectives, unlocking what women want in the workplace. This is a one hour session and we’d love to hear your questions as well. So please don’t be shy. Do write any questions or comments that you have in the chat throughout the session. So for those of you who don’t know me, I’m Lauren Diving, the CEO of International, and we’ve been recruiting and developing talent within the FMCG industry for over 11 years. Many of you working in the industry have seen amazing strides to attract, develop, and retain diverse talent, but we still aren’t where we want to be. So I was having dinner recently with a president of Europe from one of the large FMCG companies and he said to me, we’re doing our best to hire women talent at the graduate level and retain them.
(01:09):
We’re also trying to bring in women at the senior director level and above, but it’s so hard. So what do women actually want? So this is a question that I’ve been asked by many clients over many years, and I have my own assumptions, but I thought it would be a much richer conversation to bring some of these women into the conversation and also share more so that men can also understand. So the title of this webinar may have reminded you of a film from the year 2000, what Women Want with Mel Gibson and Helen Hunt. This is a very comical but true portrayal of how difficult it is for men to understand because in the end, there is a biological difference, but there are also gender norms which are placed on us at a very young age, and the only way to truly make progress is to communicate and bring men into the conversation.
(02:06):
So we really hope that these stories and experiences from Ana, Diana, and Minerva help to demystify what it is that women really want and how everyone can support on the journey to 50 50. So joining us today, we have three speakers. We’re joined today by Ana Ka Panya, the senior sales director at Heineken. Ana is a multilingual business professional with a background in business economics and further studies at EA in Singapore. Having covered various commercial roles with companies like Eves, Rocher, red Bull and Heineken, she’s made history as the first woman to serve as a senior global sales director for Heineken in its 150 year history. Ana is also a dedicated advocate for gender parity, inclusion and diversity, and recognized for her influence and contributions globally and has been awarded for her work at Heineken by the World Economic Forum. We’re also joined by Diana Burt, VP commercial at Zalando.
(03:14):
And Diana is a dynamic and results driven commercial executive adept at driving brand desirability and exponential business growth globally, regionally and locally. Diana excels in fostering open discussions, building relationships, and leading teams through change with empathy and inspiration. We’re also joined by Minerva Acevedo, sales director, former Revlon j and j and McCormick. She is a strategic senior level sales leader, passionate about inclusivity and talent development with progressive experience in managing iconic brands across health, food, alcoholic beverages and cosmetics. Minerva excels in creating sustainable and profitable growth, anchored in client oriented solutions and team empowerment. She’s also a sought after mentor and executive in residence for the Ivy Business School in Canada, as well as an advisor for Mankato Business School at the Minnesota State University’s Women in Leadership Program. So thank you to you all for joining us today. So you’ve all reached a senior level in your career and we know it wouldn’t be possible without mentors, coaches, and other leaders. So Ana, I’d like to start with you today. If you could tell us a time when anyone male or female has stepped up for you in the workplace.
Anna Campagna (04:45):
Thank you, Lauren. And hello everyone. Nice to meet you all. Well indeed there have been quite a few and it’s not just one person that makes a difference, it’s a sequence of them. So I’ve been thinking about that and I believe I want to talk about actually my most recent line manager who’s the chief commerce officer at Heineken. It’s been quite an abrupt change from the previous chief commerce officer and what I really appreciate in the way his, let’s say landed on the job is that he’s really spent an enormous amount of time in listening to people, trying to understand what people need, what people want, and putting people at the center of the conversation. So developing an incredible sense of listening, understanding, putting himself at the service of others even before starting to ask what he needs from us. That was quite sensational because it’s not common to see such dedication and so deep meaning into that.
(05:53):
It’s been very consistent all along. So we have all experienced an incredible sense of empathy, an incredible sense of we belong to this group and he really wants these people to become a team and the rockstar team. So what I really enjoyed, and that’s something that I appreciate a lot in leaders, leaders, is this ability to combine in your personal traits, masculinity and femininity together. This gives an incredible balance. It gives sensitivity and empathy on the one hand, but without lacking on assertiveness because at the end of the day, what you also want from a leader is to be clear on what needs to be done and set a strong and firm way to guide people. So that was my personal experience, this masculinity and femininity combined into a great leader that can really inspire but also be a great asset for your personal development.
Lauren Stiebing (06:56):
Alright, and what about you Diana? How have you been supported in the workplace? Who stepped up for you?
Diana Berte (07:05):
Thanks Lauren for the question. Hi everyone. Yeah, as I was preparing also for this webinar today, I was also reflecting a little bit indeed to that question. I must say in my experience, I was really blessed with finding along the way lots of female role models and also people that I still relate to. So in my experience, I was really accompanied in a way and some that I still am in touch with today and also still highly regard and be inspired by. But I also wanted to bring also one male person that really also stepped in for me. And it was at very, I want to say a pivotal moment also in my career where I made the move from a local team to a global headquarter, also changing countries. And I was given, there was an opportunity that was lined up for me to join a European team and my line manager at the time didn’t want to let me go. And for me was for of course reasons, like lots of things to do and carrying on the work that was assigned to me. But I had this at the time, marketing director that actually stepped in for me and also saw the opportunity, it was for me and my career and my growth to take a European role change country, have this international experience. So looking back, I still recognize that was a major moment also in how my career shaped. So yeah, maybe that’s a good example to share.
Lauren Stiebing (09:02):
Well thank you for that. And what about you, Minerva?
Minerva Acevedo (09:06):
Thanks, Lauren. Good morning, good afternoon, everybody. For myself, similar to Anna, it’s not just been one person, but I can actually pinpoint at the beginning of my career having a manager who really saw me beyond just being an employee, saw me as a person and what I could bring to the table and really supported me and was very open in sharing about her own lives so that I would feel comfortable in sharing my own. And then I also had another female leader who when I put my hand up for an opportunity in sales, for which I didn’t have any experience, she said, yeah, I think it would be great. I can teach you. If you don’t feel so confident about some parts of it, I can help you and teach you through it. So that was a pivotal moment for me just to really say I didn’t have to know everything for the role and then just having somebody to bet on me to help me and guide me, not expect that I would be perfect, which is probably what I was expecting of myself.
(10:07):
And then I had, when I became a people manager, my manager at the time, I wasn’t expecting to be promoted to director to be honest. It was a surprise for me. And so I think it really takes somebody sometimes to come and tell you, I think you have potential so that you can actually believe it in yourself. And so when they say that to you and they really highlight some of the strengths that you have, you really start embodying those strengths. Because many times we can be very judgmental of ourselves and very critical of ourselves. So when somebody comes and tells you those are your strengths so that you pay equal attention to them, it really makes a difference as you’re navigating your professional career. So yes, very fortunate to have those people in my career.
Lauren Stiebing (10:53):
Great. And yeah, I mean I think it’s so important to when retaining talent, any type of talent to have these mentors and leaders that really step up for you. So yeah, what are some of the aspects within a company that you think are important to have women feel safe included and given opportunities? Diana, we’ll start with you.
Diana Berte (11:18):
Yes, I think that’s a very interesting question. And I was today actually talking about inclusivity at the workplace. And I would say that’s something when inclusivity and diversity is meant by design also in how you think about your internal processes, how do you think about your evaluation process, performance review promotions, that you really value that diversity of thoughts, diversity of background and styles as opposed to really promoting always the same type, right? So I think for me, that’s one thing I would say is very important in terms of what women expect so that also a more female type of leadership is also recognized at the workplace and that it’s not only a gender point or we have to tick the box of diversity, but that it’s really meant throughout the process. And that also can mean simple things as being inclusive in thinking about when to set up a meeting, inclusive in terms of reflecting, did I make sure that everybody in this meeting could raise their opinion? Maybe there are more person types that are a bit more introverts, but making sure we invite them to the conversation. And that’s what I would say. And there are things that maybe you don’t find earlier on in your life. I’ve played and done a lot of sports, I was in a female team and I never had that need in a way to have that inclusivity because we were among ourselves and playing this competitive sport. But yeah, so that’s what I would describe as needed also in the workplace.
Lauren Stiebing (13:30):
Alright. Minerva, what do you think are some of the things that are important for women to feel safe and given opportunities?
Minerva Acevedo (13:40):
I think the first and most important thing is the recognition that we still have different journeys, men and women. So having that recognition and creating awareness that some of that past can look very different for women, there’s a lot of challenges that need to be recognized. And then from there, just the basics. And if they’re not basics they should be, which is bias training. There were many years where it really was important to show ambition, but if you show too much ambition then it can be perceived as negative. So it really is about making sure that we all recognize our own bias so that we can actually try and make sure that we’re not imposing it on the women that are talking to us and recognize that they have a different journey. And then second of all is really to have goals of representation. So Diana’s point is super important in terms of inclusivity and diversity, but it really, when you look at companies that have done it well, and I have moved as you mentioned, learning from industry to industry, the companies that tend to do it well in my own experience and when you read about them are the ones that really take a serious look at themselves and say, what are the issues that women are facing this company?
(14:51):
So driving that awareness. And then second of all, build specific programs because I lean in organizations where they actually make the women create the programs, whereas there’s other companies that actually invest that you have the highest levels of management investing in specific programs for the women in their company. So whether it’s coaching, whether it’s mentoring, whether it’s actually bringing them together in conferences so that they create a peer network amongst themselves and they can talk, that is very important. So for me it’s those elements, but it really starts with recognizing that we have different journeys and then really take an honest look at your team, see how they feel, how they’re showing up, do they show up? Do you know who they are? Do you know you ask them how they are. So it really starts with just making sure that you see them and perceive them as people that you can actually really understand what is it that they’re going through. And if you don’t know, it’s to ask, really ask and say, how are you enjoying this? Is there anything else that you feel that you need from us?
Lauren Stiebing (16:04):
Alright, and what about you, Ana? Anything else you would add on that?
Anna Campagna (16:09):
Yeah, avid that there is one element which I consider a, so-called minimum standard of performance, which is how do companies secure physical and psychological safety? And it is very important. There are so many things that can happen in the company from fraud to bribe to harassment, and the forms of harassment are endless. A lot of companies now have platforms where you have trusted channels to claim that something went wrong with certain person, but not all the companies really follow up properly on that and more importantly give transparency on how things went until the very end. So that’s the only way to secure that victims can stay safe and perpetrators can leave or in any way be isolated. So I believe there is still a lot of effort to do in this respect and this kind of safety is what empowers people, what allows people to feel free, to feel comfortable and also to a lot of women to raise the hand and ask for more or ask for what they deserve.
(17:19):
Which brings me to the second element, which is indeed what we call equal and fair opportunities. There are so many ways to describe what this means, but I believe the second point is indeed balanced candidates on a job posting transparency in an application process equal pay, and by all means removing this incredible unconscious bias that we still hear a lot between a male and the female candidate. When you’d, you go for the male, you say, I’m going to take a bet when you go for the woman, I’m going to take the risk. There shouldn’t be this difference. It’s not a bet on the man and the risk on the woman, it’s either one or the other for both. But I wouldn’t talk about risk at all. I would talk about bets because if you’re deciding to appointing someone on a job, it means this person by definition is not plug and play. This person needs to be developed, accompanied, educated, supported, equipped. And this is true for men and women, but I believe equal and fair opportunity should be considering the mindset we approach the question and then the tools will come and then the supports will come.
Lauren Stiebing (18:34):
Yeah. I wanted to ask, since you all come from a commercial background, and of course we’ve been recruiting senior commercial roles, travel is always a topic of conversation, how much travel is required, especially on global sales positions, how have you been able to balance that? And I know it’s a bit easier when you are internally promoted because they know you already and you have a network as opposed to coming into an organization from the external. And how have you managed that NVA in your experience?
Minerva Acevedo (19:11):
Yeah, so the way that I have managed it, it really is about getting to know that person. So when you show that you are curious to learn who that person is, especially if you’re just getting to know them, again, it goes back to learning what is it that they’re working on. Perhaps they have some projects that you share in common and then you start from there and then you build the conversation perhaps to really ask them. So whether you want to know how they see themselves in the future so that you actually have this authenticity about learning about their career path. And it creates this really organic exchange of ideas when you’re traveling as well. And I did get asked this a few times, it’s just really making sure that you ask the person. So as a male, just to really to say, I want to be aware, I want to make sure that are you comfortable if we go for coffee after we have the dinner or do we meet in the morning to plan for the breakfast? And I think that once you create that personal report, then it’s really easy to have that conversation. So perhaps you’re a little bit apprehensive on really starting the conversation, but I think that really great things come about being curious and being authentic about getting to know the person that’s standing in front of you.
Lauren Stiebing (20:27):
Alright. And Ana, have you ever faced any challenges in terms of travel demands and balancing that with family and other instances? Because I know that travel is high on the agenda usually for sales individuals.
Anna Campagna (20:44):
Yeah, no, it is totally. And honestly can’t declare to be a good salesperson if you don’t visit the market, you should spend most of your time in the market because that’s what consumers and customers are in action. And that’s where we’re the rubber hits road you say, right? So well I’m particularly obsessed by that and that’s why I speak so many languages because I really like to connect with my counterpart in the most specific and personalized way. Of course, it doesn’t mean that I can speak any single language around the world, but it really creates a proximity and intimacy in a conversation if there is a language barrier. However, there are so many other ways to show interest and attention and it’s really about asking questions. The famous habit of highly effective people understand before being understood. I am a strong supporter of this philosophy and it really reduces distances, it really allows you to get close to people.
(21:46):
And what I say, it’s tiring and it’s sometimes also not easy because when I used to travel in Africa for example, you had to take malaria pills, you can’t eat or drink whatever pops up in front of you in a lot of places you need to move escorted by police or armed cars. But the beauty and the relevance of what you discover in the market just makes you a better professional because when you talk about something then you’re really talking because you know what you’re talking about and that improves the quality of your job and quality of any contribution of yours enormously.
Lauren Stiebing (22:26):
Alright, well thanks for that. And Diana, I mean if you’re joining a new company or a new team, what leadership qualities would you highlight that you would be looking for in a manager, in a leader?
Diana Berte (22:42):
So if I were to join now a new company, I think I would be very attached to understand a little bit the culture that the company fosters and also have the leadership also speak about how the view also and their viewpoint on this diversity and inclusion topic. If I were to look in particular at leadership style, I think I very much appreciate a lot of autonomy. So I think for me what is super important in leadership is to give trust by default to the person. And I need trust to thrive. So that probably would be something really I would look for. I think also to have a person as a lead that would be open and where you can bring different perspectives so that create that environment where different perspective, different viewpoints are valued, even if at some point it’s to go in another direction or another decision, but at least that those perspectives are fostered and enrich the discussion as opposed to someone that would be very, very directive. I think that at least would be something that would be difficult for me.
Lauren Stiebing (24:06):
Alright, and what about you Minerva?
Minerva Acevedo (24:11):
So for myself, I think that more and more is somebody who is able to be present in the time that they dedicate for you so that they’re able to respect your time as much as they respect theirs. There’s many instances when everybody is busy. So just really making sure that you are present in that conversation. So whether it’s you are discussing business, you’re discussing anything else, just make sure that you’re paying attention to the person that is sitting in front of you and then make sure that you make them feel important, that you make them feel that you’re actually listening because what Diana and Anna are alluding to cannot really be created if you are not actively listening to whoever’s standing in front of you. So I would just say invite everybody to be present.
Lauren Stiebing (24:58):
Alright, and Anna, what about you?
Anna Campagna (25:02):
I’ve come across a very interesting quote lately and it’s the following, be the leader that you want your leader to be. And I really like, it inspired me a lot and if I look at the people that have guided me or will guide me in the future, there is one thing that is common and that has made me what I am now but hopefully will allow me to even go further in the future. And it is, I want a leader to look equally with equally interest to what I have achieved, so to what I have already in my bag and to what I will achieve. So my performance track and my potential, not just what I have done, what I have achieved already, but what I can achieve in future that can be very different from what I have achieved in the past. And I think this is really the ultimate way to give people opportunities.
(26:00):
So again, we go back to the topic of the safe bet, right? Okay, I get this person because this person is plug and play, he she will be able to do the job and so I can stop worrying. No, that’s when the job starts. Then the work starts between the leader and the person that you hire that you need to support this person to get to the best of their potential, to the best version of themselves. You need to play a role in that. You can’t leave people alone on that. So equal importance to past achievement and future potential regardless of age, gender, and any other filter that we, again, because of unconscious bias put on people, I think that’s the best way to describe the ultimate leader.
Lauren Stiebing (26:54):
Alright, well thanks for that. Yeah, I mean one of the typical biases from many people is that women are very loyal. Would love to hear your thoughts. Diana, we’ll start with you. Why do you think that is the bias? Do you think it’s true or do you think that they are loyal when they have the right safety in place? How would you see that?
Diana Berte (27:21):
That’s an interesting one. I think there is probably some truth in it in the sense of there is a certain respect maybe we have also in how we are raised also towards hierarchy and so on. So maybe that also is perceived as loyalty and we like things to be also transparent. So I’m also thinking for instance, when maybe finding new opportunities. I think womens are a little bit less proactive in that field. And if you are in a role, in a position, you may not actively pursue several opportunities because you feel okay that’s being disloyal to your employer. Whereas in fact it’s about understanding the market maybe better. It’s also opening up for maybe opportunities that you would not have thought about. And yeah, maybe it’s perceived for women as being disloyal in a way, so we maybe tend to not do it as much.
(28:39):
So I don’t know if that’s something maybe you see also from your perspective where womens are more hesitant to pursue those opportunities also with being loyal. I was discussing recently with a former colleague of mine and she told me that considering to interview for other position while she was in the role was almost like as if she would be cheating on her husband. And I was like, no, that’s not the same. So I think that’s going a little bit into what you’re saying Lauren, and I think we should encourage womens to don’t think that way, right? Because it can be also holding ourselves a little bit back.
Lauren Stiebing (29:25):
Yeah, there’s a book, maybe some of you have read it from Jill Witty Collins called Why Men Win at Work, and she talks about some of the things that, well, why men win at work, as you can imagine. But one of the things that she talks about is the umbrella theory, which is basically women having all of their achievements and all of their performance under an umbrella, but they need to turn the umbrella upside down and share that with other people. I do think that for my headhunter perspective, executive search consultant perspective, I do think that it is harder to get women on the phone than it is to get men on the phone for whatever reason we could discuss that. Whether they don’t take as much time for networking, whether they don’t want to take a call, if they’re not ready to make a move, whatever it may be.
(30:21):
It’s just the general networking, of course it could be that they have a lot of workload at home and they don’t have time for that. Maybe they feel like they’re cheating on their current employer. There’s probably many different reasons, but I think a lot of what I’ve seen, it’s either that they don’t think that they’re ready for the role, that they’re not ready to go for it. So it’s from my side, either a confidence piece or a timing piece. I think as well based on what’s happening in their family, what’s happening in their life, I’ve seen that women have a more structured plan of this is how it needs to be. So sometimes they may not be ready for that opportunity just based on the timing in their personal life. So yeah. Minerva, I’d love to hear from you. What do you think? On the loyalty piece?
Minerva Acevedo (31:17):
I would just say I’ve encountered the same as Diana was mentioning. So even when I would attend or I attend networking and people come and ask you for advice, it really is about, it is healthy to go on conversations when somebody is calling you, a recruiter is calling you, and just to really have that curiosity to see. So again, it all goes back with that interest of learning. So going and talking to somebody else doesn’t make you be unloyal to them. Actually it helps you expand your network, it helps you see what other people are doing, but it is perceived as if you are going around your current company and being disloyal, but it actually makes you a better professional, then you really expand the network, you have stronger, more quality conversations. But I really think that Diana hit on a very important point that many times women will not put their hand up.
(32:14):
They really do not want to rock the boat. They don’t want to call any unnecessary attention to them. So they put their head down and expect that their hard work is going to be recognized. So you will see you have look around you, there’s a lot of really hardworking women and that’s how they want to speak through the quality of their work, which is very different than men. Men we all know they have more confidence. It’s really just, I’m going to put my hand up. They don’t go into a new role, a new project thinking that they’re going to make a mistake. They just think that they can do it and I am the best for this project, this opportunity. However, for women in some instances there is a lot of questioning whether they have the capability or not, which is why we already alluded to.
(32:57):
So sometimes they need encouragement. So going back to the point about if you see potential, then make sure that you encourage it. It can be women who are not even in your team. It can be women that you see in different functions and just really saying something that you see as a strength can pay out a lot because they perhaps they’re in the same company, but they would like to go to a different function. So you see some transferable skills that you want to bring over. Then just talk about those skills and those strengths because sometimes they really get honed into one function, but it’s really interesting when you actually have the conversation and ask what they’re interested in and what is holding them back and see how that opens up and really guides the conversation on what they require at that moment.
Lauren Stiebing (33:45):
Alright, thanks. And yeah, we have a question from the chat, which is does any one of you have some examples of how your companies are helping and changing the biases that were brought forward by your answers? Anyone want to take a hit at that?
Anna Campagna (34:05):
I can give it a go. Well, first of all, it’s all about dialogue. It’s about taking it out. And one thing I have seen a lot of panic in the last few years, it’s really a lot of discussion around that. So try to understand when I was in Mexico for example, we used to do this inclusion circles and every time the circle would be composed by a different number of people. And there was an interesting exercise where everyone would be assigned a role to play to understand whether we could find ourselves within or outside of the circle and then have a debate about that. And then the people in the circle would try to get in the people outside of the circle, sometimes exceeding, sometimes not very interesting way to understand different perspectives.
(34:56):
So the thing about opening up and really having an open conversation about that I think is the first step, but we need also to understand exactly what the challenges are and the challenges change across the workforce. So we’ve spoken about loyalty. Loyalty for Gen X is very different than the concept of loyalty for millennials, for Gen Z, in fact it decreases dramatically. So the big problem that companies have with the new generations that work in my view is retention. The reasons to believe are different. So maybe for my mother, what was important in the workplace was stability. For example, safe salary at the end of each month and don’t mess with me, let me be, let me do my job and so on. Then our generation is more ambitious. We want to grow, we really want to go up the ladder, the future generations want to change.
(36:03):
They don’t want to stay long in any position, let alone in any company. So how do you really create these elements that this trigger people to feel excited about the company? So it’s really about creating this excitement and creating excitement is about resolving needs, addressing needs or pain points for that matter. So that’s why it requires a constant dialogue and that’s why a lot of companies are more and more frequently going into pulse surveys, climate surveys, and really spend enormous amount of money and time in digging into the results to really understand where the point points are and then try to address them. So I believe that once again the answer is dialogue and spending enormous amount of time in understanding.
Lauren Stiebing (36:57):
Alright, and what about you Diana? Anything that you’d like to add around examples of companies helping to change the bias?
Diana Berte (37:05):
Yeah, I can share some concrete examples of also what we are doing at Orlando at the moment. For instance, I mentioned before this idea of being inclusive by design in terms of how we see our regular processes. So one example is we have a process for reviewing promotions. We review promotions in a committee with several individuals and in order also to eliminate as much bias as possible, we also have a written memo for presenting the person. And we also reminded before each session about biases we may have and we can be the best leader we can be, but we all have our own biases. And it’s not only about gender biases, but we also call out recency biases. Maybe a person in the committee has just had the opportunity to work with that person three days ago, and that’s a recency bias. So again, reminding ourself about those biases.
(38:19):
And we also call out on each other. So there is also when we see maybe it can also be that in the room we have a more senior person that may influence the committee because the person has a higher position in the organization. So we call out this biases for bringing as fair decision as possible. We do similarly for recruitment also with reviewing via committees. And maybe the last example that comes to my mind is also, and it goes a bit in the direction of the inclusivity aspect also in how we speak. So we also trained to speak in a more inclusive way, use using the right word, not addressing a crowd with hey guys or these kind of things where also we are trained across the organization. So maybe those are concrete examples I can share.
Lauren Stiebing (39:26):
Alright, and Minerva, anything you’d like to add?
Minerva Acevedo (39:31):
I was going to say, so yeah, so recognizing that we all inherently have biases. So there’s some really good examples about what even comes to mind when you are going on a plane and you see the pilot and you’re sitting next to a couple who celebrating a wedding anniversary and then somebody says, did you think that the pilot was a male or a female? So that’s kind of like you answer yourself or even is the couple celebrating their anniversary? Is it your traditional male and female or is it two women who are celebrating their wedding anniversary? It’s such a simple exercise to show that we all bring our bias. So yeah, so what Diana is talking about the specific types of bias and having that training is super useful. But if you’re already doing that training, one of the things that really works is making sure that you have a discussion after the training.
(40:26):
So perhaps you have a lunch and learn and really say, so what did you learn? Was there something that you didn’t know? You feel that we are doing a good job in making sure that we are working on our own biases as a team. So it’s really the company perhaps can invest in those training, but what really matters is when the manager actually creates that environment to come together and talk about whatever the training content was. So that’s always very helpful. And then I was going to say for the male managers, it really is about making sure that you are curious, so asking questions and being honest about yourself. So if you don’t know or you’re thinking, I don’t really know how to approach this person, again, it’s super simple. Just ask some questions and then start building that connection and that report.
Lauren Stiebing (41:18):
Alright, and yeah, question that I get asked quite often are around benefits and none of you have mentioned benefits so far because it’s all been about leadership and I think that that shines through to say that that is more important than the benefits, although benefits are important. Anything that you’d like to add on benefits that you’ve seen companies offering that you think are fantastic or how do you think benefits play into attracting and retaining women talent? I’ll start with you Minerva.
Minerva Acevedo (41:56):
Thanks. I have two experiences where parental leave is something that Ana’s point, as people are going through different cycles in the different generations, they really want to know whether do they want to have a family, do they want to stay in this company, do they want to switch regions? And I think that a company that does it really well is KPMG. So they manage a huge amount of talent and it took for them to recognize 10 years ago that they really needed to have a different approach for women. So they were really purposeful from the moment they hire a woman to give her additional resources, assign a coach or assign a mentor, and then when they see that they are poised to be future leaders, they really assign a sponsor. So really helping navigating the women and then if they make decisions to go back to school or perhaps they decide to start a family or they need to care for a parent, because again, women have many different stages and they have to play many different roles outside of the company.
(43:00):
It really is to make sure to show that flexibility. So many times if we talk about what is being done wrong is we create the talent profile and then the woman goes off to whatever it is that she’s doing and then when she comes back, there’s a new manager. So it’s almost like she needs to prove herself again. So it is really important as a company to make sure that you pinpoint who those women are so that they’re not having to come back and really start their career all over again. So if somebody has to take a leave of absence for the different reasons that I mentioned, it really is to make sure that you’re ready to onboard them when they come back so that their trajectory continues to be stable and they feel supported in whatever the stage that they had come back to. So perhaps if they became a mother, they need more flexible hours. If they’re looking after a parent, perhaps they need to be working from home more often. So right now the technology has changed so much that it really is well poised to allow for flexibility, but again, recognizing that the path of women even within the women look very differently.
Lauren Stiebing (44:10):
And Ana, anything that you’d like to add around benefits?
Anna Campagna (44:14):
I fully support what Minerva said, infrastructure is very important and the recognizing that there are different needs in different age stages of a life path. Another one that I see as become more and more important is really visibility on how much the company is willing to invest in your development. By the way, this is true for men and women, so it doesn’t really make a big difference, but especially for new generations, they want to know not just that they’re bringing value to you, but that you’re bringing value to them, not just through an exciting job, but also through the ability to grow, grow. There was something very interesting that happened a couple of weeks ago. I was in school as one of my daughters is getting into the IB diploma next year, and the dean that was explaining the program said something quite shocking. He said, parents be very careful how you advise your kids on a future career path and jobs because seven out of the 10 jobs that your kids will have do not exist yet. And that means that you really want to leave the door open for this new generations to develop. But honestly, this is true also for me. I’m not in the new generation, but I still want to learn new things. So a company that is willing to offer me that, and again, not just looks at me for what I have achieved, but what I can achieve in the future in a blue ocean sort of fashion, that’s definitely company worth my attention and interest.
Lauren Stiebing (45:49):
Alright, thanks for that. We have a question from the chat, which is can you also bring some thoughts regarding on how do you embed diversity among women, meaning ethnicity, transgender, Diana, anything you would like to add there?
Diana Berte (46:09):
Yes, I think what I mentioned also how we see this in terms of efforts also as a company, we look really through the lens of inclusivity and that includes everybody, right? And not per se only about this male female divide in a way. And it goes through, I said, being mindful of the language that we use, being mindful of the different perspective. We recently introduced also a survey that we do regularly with our employees also integrating some of those questions, also understanding the perspective of the different minorities and that they can surface if maybe there are things that are not working so well for certain minorities, so we at least surface them or we have a very robust process to at least ask the question. So I would say that’s a first step. Is it sufficient? Is it enough? Probably not. I think also in Europe we work in an environment that is maybe not as transparent also with certain topics such as ethnicity, I am also having a French background. It’s almost impossible to do these things in France. So yeah, I think the way we approach it’s really as being as inclusive as possible of all the minorities. Right? Yeah.
Lauren Stiebing (47:52):
And Ana, anything you’d like to add in terms of diversity amongst women? I know we’ve been grouping women and men, but of course we all understand that that’s much, much wider than that. Yeah,
Anna Campagna (48:06):
Well I can give you my personal experience because in a business like alcohol, being a woman in some markets is not easy. You are not allowed by your family even to work in the business or it’s not well seen by the society at large. So you need to put into place mechanisms that allow the person to thrive in the workplace, but protecting also this personal area where the person has to have another space. That’s one element that is very important. The other is demystifying that some jobs are just for men. As an example, frontline salesperson, frontline salesperson, it used to, oh yeah, no, it has to be a man because you go to bars and restaurants and the peak hour is in the evening or in the night. So no, a woman can’t do it. This is not true. It’s just about putting in place the right safety infrastructure to make sure that even a woman can do the job, by the way, you want to keep a man as safe as a woman, but the problem gets born from the women. So in Brazil for example, we had this issue that women wouldn’t apply to frontline sales jobs because they have to ride a bicycle, sorry, motorbike. And it’s very simple switch from motorbikes to cars and all of a sudden women apply for job because they feel safe enough to do. It’s about understanding the barrier and removing the barrier to allow people to just get into the conversation.
Lauren Stiebing (49:49):
Well, thank you for sharing that. And yes, as we all know, women’s day is just one day, but we really invited you here and everyone here to keep the conversation going to be an advocate for companies, for teams. So yeah, as you’ve all heard, Minerva, Anna and Diana say that leaders and mentors who supported them are so important and to really pass along that leadership as well. I don’t know if all of you here may know, but we have a program called LS Elevate where we offer mentorship to various different leaders who are looking to be mentored by men or women. So it doesn’t have to do with gender. And actually Minerva, Diana and Anna are all mentors in that program. So if anyone is looking for any extra support, guidance, inspiration, definitely reach out to us and we would be happy to help. And yeah, a big thank you to all of the speakers and to everyone to joining us here today. We will be uploading this recording to our YouTube channel, so if you’d like to share this with colleagues or friends, please do. And I wish everyone a great day and thank you so much for joining us today.
Anna Campagna (51:06):
Thank you everyone.
Lauren Stiebing (51:07):
Thanks everyone. Bye.
